8V1200 roller tappets

[Jdtwoplus]

Having now completed over 100,000 miles on 8V1200 engines, including 20,000 miles in the T4, I feel reasonably qualified to comment on the flat tappet problem. I had one failure on my 2013 engine, which had rollers from new, but only 100 engine numbers from the change over. One roller split and damaged the camshaft so the repair was expensive. The 2011 engine did 45,000 miles on flat tappets and was changed to rollers, however because of the failure in the 2013 engine I no longer totally trust that early rollers were really good enough. So the 2011 engine in the T4 is now receiving new roller tappets as a service item every 40,000 miles. I will be in the Pyrennes in June and dont want to be worrying about it. Overkill....maybe?????

[peakrock]

When your 2011 engine was changed to rollers instead of flat tappets did you change the camshafts as well? I've heard anecdotally that the flat tappets can damage the camshafts although I guess if the camshafts look and measure fine at the time of the change, then there's no need to replace them as well?

The Norge engine for my Type 4 which has done 18K miles in total had the roller conversion done for "free" by the Guzzi dealer as the bike had full Guzzi service history.

I don't think changing the cam rollers is overkill given the mileage you do and where you're planning to drive. The engine is going to be working hard along with the brakes!

Interestingly (?) the Norge engine I'm using has a triangular oil cooler with an electric fan behind it and a temperature switch in the sump. The previous owner of the bike said that the only time the fan had come on was when he was touring two up + luggage and had done a long mountain climb. Do you know what your oil temperature gets to and have you or anyone thought about a cooling fan behind the oil cooler bearing in mind speeds will be slow and the engine working hard?

Dave

[iant-s]

I have it from several sources that the oil pump should be changed whenever a roller conversion has shown tapped wear. It had been found that the very fine metal particles could increase the clearance between the pump gears and so reducing the oil flow. Still made more than 5psi which keeps the oil warning light off but the flow rate is down particularly at high rpm.

Also Guzzi engines are over-cooled with excessive finning on the cylinders. This design allows for stationary traffic on a 40 degree day in Milan. In a more temperature moderate country Guzzi engines warm up slowly - hence the yoghurt!

[Jdtwoplus]

Dave, luckily the camshafts on the 2011 engine were fine and like yours the rollerisation was done under warranty. Having now taken out those rollers they seem in decent condition, so I will keep them as emergency spares with 40k on their clock. The failure of the 2013 roller did lead to camshaft damage with obvious scuffing on the surface of the lobe.....when the damaged happened, I was sitting astride the bike and in retrospect heard it break and should have turned it off straight away. But of course one doesnt as the bike is still running!!

to be honest I think usage makes a massive difference. It seems some Griso engines used in the city only made 10k miles or so on flat tappets. My Norge engine did 45,000 on flats and has always been carefully warmed up before the beans are applied, so less likely I think to damage cams.

My oil pumps have been OK Ian...

[Jdtwoplus]

Dave, luckily the camshafts on the 2011 engine were fine and like yours the rollerisation was done under warranty. Having now taken out those rollers they seem in decent condition, so I will keep them as emergency spares with 40k on their clock. The failure of the 2013 roller did lead to camshaft damage with obvious scuffing on the surface of the lobe.....when the damaged happened, I was sitting astride the bike and in retrospect heard it break and should have turned it off straight away. But of course one doesnt as the bike is still running!!

to be honest I think usage makes a massive difference. It seems some Griso engines used in the city only made 10k miles or so on flat tappets. My Norge engine did 45,000 on flats and has always been carefully warmed up before the beans are applied, so less likely I think to damage cams.

My oil pumps have been OK Ian...

[louise]

If you’re putting serious mileage on the engine and planning long trips like the Pyrenees run, preventative replacement every 40k miles could be cheap insurance compared to another camshaft failure. The early roller designs did seem to have some inconsistencies, so your caution makes sense. What i mean is that if replacing them periodically gives you peace of mind for long-distance touring, it’s probably worth it.

[peakrock]

I have it from several sources that the oil pump should be changed whenever a roller conversion has shown tapped wear. It had been found that the very fine metal particles could increase the clearance between the pump gears and so reducing the oil flow. Still made more than 5psi which keeps the oil warning light off but the flow rate is down particularly at high rpm.

Also Guzzi engines are over-cooled with excessive finning on the cylinders. This design allows for stationary traffic on a 40 degree day in Milan. In a more temperature moderate country Guzzi engines warm up slowly - hence the yoghurt!

Ian, by yoghurt do you mean the whitish sludge you can see in the breather? I take your point about possible excessive cooling for the engine in this country, although with the summer's we've been having recently one might need that at times! I think my smaller triangular oil cooler setup with a fan is a good solution to meet a potential wide ambient temperature range.

Dave

[iant-s]

Further to my postulation regarding over-cooling. It occurred to me that a Triking is much more likely to be stuck in traffic than a motorcycle. Therefore the "excessive" finning might be the very thing required. I have myself have been quite concerned by the way I am looking over the bonnet at the heat-haze rising from the engine, before pulling forward into a cloud of red-hot aluminium smell.