This is a general question. Early Trikings had a Ford or Toyota gearbox instead of the guzzi one. This gives 4 speed and reverse. I assume that they had a modified chassis. The forward/reverse unit from Nova gives 5 forward and 5 reverse but is noisy. It may still require some chassis work.
The gearbox of choice for Morgans and a bunch of other vehicles is the Mazda unit, 5 or 6 speed from the MX5/Miata.
The question is, has anyone tried this? I am assuming that it would require chassis modification.
I am still looking at the whole issue as we get near to the winter shutdown.
cheers, Simon
gearbox
Re: gearbox
That would be a great specification Simon.
Building a Triking using a Guzzi donor makes economic sence.
Departing from that spec introduces additional costs which could put the project beyond affordability.
Purchase of gearbox, specialist machining, major surgery to chassis.
Adaptor engine plates may already have been developed, finding the supplier might prove difficult.
The thought of the Mazda gearbox in the Triking with super slick, quiet synchromesh gear changes, with no excess noise from the Nova reverse box, is worth the challenge.
Chassis mods would be quite feasible, competant welding ability would be essential.
If you have the skills and facilities, I'd say go for it. You've got all winter.
Take care,
Tony
Building a Triking using a Guzzi donor makes economic sence.
Departing from that spec introduces additional costs which could put the project beyond affordability.
Purchase of gearbox, specialist machining, major surgery to chassis.
Adaptor engine plates may already have been developed, finding the supplier might prove difficult.
The thought of the Mazda gearbox in the Triking with super slick, quiet synchromesh gear changes, with no excess noise from the Nova reverse box, is worth the challenge.
Chassis mods would be quite feasible, competant welding ability would be essential.
If you have the skills and facilities, I'd say go for it. You've got all winter.
Take care,
Tony
Re: gearbox
This topic has been covered extensively elsewhere and is quite complex. I will try to cover the basics..............
Exactly as Tony says any deviation from the Nova reverse box is going to be very expensive if done correctly and a failure otherwise. A Triking specification Nova box has bespoke internals making it quieter and smoother than a std Nova box, when installed and set up correctly they are not any more noisy than the Guzzi gearbox, however the Guzzi gearbox is not as smooth as a "car" type gearbox simply because the Guzzi box is dog engagement so has no synchromesh. Some customer built Trikings have been constructed with std Nova boxes resulting in a noisy transmission.
Early Trikings used the now obsolete Toyota gearboxes - If manufactured as a reverse model they had a dedicated chassis for that purpose (not a modified chassis). Later reverse versions used the Ford T9 box as it had, and still does have good availability and backup, Again the chassis was bespoke for that gearbox. These installations used small diameter clutches to enable fitment within the Guzzi crankcase stud spacings. These were both 5 speed versions and worked perfectly OK on earlier engines with relatively low power. The later engines having higher torque and BHP led to various problems with clutches and flywheels this is partly what prompted the design change to the Nova reverse box.
Joining an MX5 gearbox to a Guzzi engine is (relatively) simple but not in such a way that it is sufficiently compact/narrow to fit a Triking chassis. All model Triking chassis's tunnel is simply too narrow to accommodate the Mx5 gearbox with a std bellhousing, additionally the entire steering arrangement would have to be relocated as if the rack was left in its current location the engine and gearbox would be far too high up. If it was installed in the only available position, there would be very little foot room left available - certainly too little to actually be able to drive it. The T4 model has a much wider tunnel and footwell area so has more potential. I think the only way to successfully install an MX5 type gearbox in a Triking would be in a T4 chassis in fact we have been working on just that for some time now.
To give some idea of whats involved it requires a bespoke bellhousing and replacement front case for the gearbox in addition to all the usual parts you would expect such as custom flywheel, clutch and operating mechanism etc. Even considering a large proportion of the development cost is the design work the parts cost alone would be many times the cost of a Nova gearbox.
Exactly as Tony says any deviation from the Nova reverse box is going to be very expensive if done correctly and a failure otherwise. A Triking specification Nova box has bespoke internals making it quieter and smoother than a std Nova box, when installed and set up correctly they are not any more noisy than the Guzzi gearbox, however the Guzzi gearbox is not as smooth as a "car" type gearbox simply because the Guzzi box is dog engagement so has no synchromesh. Some customer built Trikings have been constructed with std Nova boxes resulting in a noisy transmission.
Early Trikings used the now obsolete Toyota gearboxes - If manufactured as a reverse model they had a dedicated chassis for that purpose (not a modified chassis). Later reverse versions used the Ford T9 box as it had, and still does have good availability and backup, Again the chassis was bespoke for that gearbox. These installations used small diameter clutches to enable fitment within the Guzzi crankcase stud spacings. These were both 5 speed versions and worked perfectly OK on earlier engines with relatively low power. The later engines having higher torque and BHP led to various problems with clutches and flywheels this is partly what prompted the design change to the Nova reverse box.
Joining an MX5 gearbox to a Guzzi engine is (relatively) simple but not in such a way that it is sufficiently compact/narrow to fit a Triking chassis. All model Triking chassis's tunnel is simply too narrow to accommodate the Mx5 gearbox with a std bellhousing, additionally the entire steering arrangement would have to be relocated as if the rack was left in its current location the engine and gearbox would be far too high up. If it was installed in the only available position, there would be very little foot room left available - certainly too little to actually be able to drive it. The T4 model has a much wider tunnel and footwell area so has more potential. I think the only way to successfully install an MX5 type gearbox in a Triking would be in a T4 chassis in fact we have been working on just that for some time now.
To give some idea of whats involved it requires a bespoke bellhousing and replacement front case for the gearbox in addition to all the usual parts you would expect such as custom flywheel, clutch and operating mechanism etc. Even considering a large proportion of the development cost is the design work the parts cost alone would be many times the cost of a Nova gearbox.
Re: gearbox
As usual, wonderful answers and providing real help. I can obviously strike the mazda etc gearbox off my list.
To clarify my questions, I have the only Triking in eastern Canada, and, while Steve has the other one and all sorts of appropriate skills for fixing or rebuilding, he is about 3000 miles away in Calgary. This means that I am trying to figure out how best to sort out a way forward without sending the car to the UK although that is an interesting plan.
If anyone has photos of the underneath of a type 1 fitted with the Nova and a description of how to modify frame? that would be great. I have no welding skills so would have to recruit help.
Apart from this the winter tasks are to rebuild the carbs, sort out the alternator and fit quieter silencers.
cheers
To clarify my questions, I have the only Triking in eastern Canada, and, while Steve has the other one and all sorts of appropriate skills for fixing or rebuilding, he is about 3000 miles away in Calgary. This means that I am trying to figure out how best to sort out a way forward without sending the car to the UK although that is an interesting plan.
If anyone has photos of the underneath of a type 1 fitted with the Nova and a description of how to modify frame? that would be great. I have no welding skills so would have to recruit help.
Apart from this the winter tasks are to rebuild the carbs, sort out the alternator and fit quieter silencers.
cheers
Re: gearbox
Agreed, very useful and comprehensive response.
I too have a Type 1 without reverse. Believe my car was originally built with the Ford transmission (or at least that's what it says on the poster board that came with the car), but that is long gone. My engine was upgraded to a Centauro at some point and Guzzi trans was used with that engine. I am toying with the idea of adding reverse, quite possibly electric but not sure I really need it. When I get out to push it into position, I get so many offers for help and associated friendly conversation, I'm not sure I'd use it. First order of business is to build a new tail over the winter months. My Type 1 unit seems excessively short for the car to my eye an believe I could gain a few inches of cockpit space as well. After that is done, I may consider reverse gear.
It does seem that the Nova solution is by far the most elegant and is quite cost effective in my opinion. I would be interested in what chassis modifications are required to the type 1 chassis as well.
I too have a Type 1 without reverse. Believe my car was originally built with the Ford transmission (or at least that's what it says on the poster board that came with the car), but that is long gone. My engine was upgraded to a Centauro at some point and Guzzi trans was used with that engine. I am toying with the idea of adding reverse, quite possibly electric but not sure I really need it. When I get out to push it into position, I get so many offers for help and associated friendly conversation, I'm not sure I'd use it. First order of business is to build a new tail over the winter months. My Type 1 unit seems excessively short for the car to my eye an believe I could gain a few inches of cockpit space as well. After that is done, I may consider reverse gear.
It does seem that the Nova solution is by far the most elegant and is quite cost effective in my opinion. I would be interested in what chassis modifications are required to the type 1 chassis as well.
Re: gearbox
I will see what photos I can find.
No Triking Type 1 chassis was ever built with a Ford T9 gearbox although of course one could have been subsequently converted, The Ford Type 9 was introduced to replace the -what had become unobtainable Toyota gearbox. The Ford gearbox was only ever fitted to a very few Triking Type 2 models.
To simplify..............
Early T1 Short wheelbase models have either Guzzi OR Toyota gearbox. Late (Current production) T1 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/ Nova (if reverse model) gearbox. Essentially the current production T1 model is the same chassis as a T3 model but with T1 bodywork hence also Long wheelbase.
T2 models have Guzzi, Toyota, Ford or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model) gearboxes.
T3 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model)
T4 models have Guzzi/Nova gearbox (all T4 models are reverse)
Of course, the Nova gearbox is not a multi speed gearbox - it simply reverses shaft rotation to provide a reverse gear and does not have a range of gears providing different speeds so has to be used in conjunction with a standard motorcycle gearbox.
The Triking T1,2 and 3 models are essentially the same chassis dimensionally with different bodywork, Early T1 models were SWB, Late T1, all T2 and all T3 models are all LWB being 100mm longer than the early T1s All Type 1 models and early Type 2 models had a shorter tail moulding.
No Triking Type 1 chassis was ever built with a Ford T9 gearbox although of course one could have been subsequently converted, The Ford Type 9 was introduced to replace the -what had become unobtainable Toyota gearbox. The Ford gearbox was only ever fitted to a very few Triking Type 2 models.
To simplify..............
Early T1 Short wheelbase models have either Guzzi OR Toyota gearbox. Late (Current production) T1 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/ Nova (if reverse model) gearbox. Essentially the current production T1 model is the same chassis as a T3 model but with T1 bodywork hence also Long wheelbase.
T2 models have Guzzi, Toyota, Ford or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model) gearboxes.
T3 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model)
T4 models have Guzzi/Nova gearbox (all T4 models are reverse)
Of course, the Nova gearbox is not a multi speed gearbox - it simply reverses shaft rotation to provide a reverse gear and does not have a range of gears providing different speeds so has to be used in conjunction with a standard motorcycle gearbox.
The Triking T1,2 and 3 models are essentially the same chassis dimensionally with different bodywork, Early T1 models were SWB, Late T1, all T2 and all T3 models are all LWB being 100mm longer than the early T1s All Type 1 models and early Type 2 models had a shorter tail moulding.
Re: gearbox
I will see what photos I can find.
No Triking Type 1 chassis was ever built with a Ford T9 gearbox although of course one could have been subsequently converted, The Ford Type 9 was introduced to replace the -what had become unobtainable Toyota gearbox. The Ford gearbox was only ever fitted to a very few Triking Type 2 models.
To simplify..............
Early T1 Short wheelbase models have either Guzzi OR Toyota gearbox. Late (Current production) T1 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/ Nova (if reverse model) gearbox. Essentially the current production T1 model is the same chassis as a T3 model but with T1 bodywork hence also Long wheelbase. Not many T1 models were built with reverse.
T2 models have Guzzi, Toyota, Ford or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model) gearboxes. Around half of T2 models have reverse.
T3 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model) Most T3 models have reverse.
T4 models have Guzzi/Nova gearbox, all T4 models are reverse.
Of course, the Nova gearbox is not a multi speed gearbox - it simply reverses shaft rotation to provide a reverse gear and does not have a range of gears providing different speeds so has to be used in conjunction with a standard motorcycle gearbox.
The Triking T1,2 and 3 models are essentially the same chassis dimensionally with different bodywork, Early T1 models were SWB, Late T1, all T2 and all T3 models are all LWB being 100mm longer than the early T1s All Type 1 models and early Type 2 models had a shorter tail moulding.
No Triking Type 1 chassis was ever built with a Ford T9 gearbox although of course one could have been subsequently converted, The Ford Type 9 was introduced to replace the -what had become unobtainable Toyota gearbox. The Ford gearbox was only ever fitted to a very few Triking Type 2 models.
To simplify..............
Early T1 Short wheelbase models have either Guzzi OR Toyota gearbox. Late (Current production) T1 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/ Nova (if reverse model) gearbox. Essentially the current production T1 model is the same chassis as a T3 model but with T1 bodywork hence also Long wheelbase. Not many T1 models were built with reverse.
T2 models have Guzzi, Toyota, Ford or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model) gearboxes. Around half of T2 models have reverse.
T3 models have Guzzi or Guzzi/Nova (if reverse model) Most T3 models have reverse.
T4 models have Guzzi/Nova gearbox, all T4 models are reverse.
Of course, the Nova gearbox is not a multi speed gearbox - it simply reverses shaft rotation to provide a reverse gear and does not have a range of gears providing different speeds so has to be used in conjunction with a standard motorcycle gearbox.
The Triking T1,2 and 3 models are essentially the same chassis dimensionally with different bodywork, Early T1 models were SWB, Late T1, all T2 and all T3 models are all LWB being 100mm longer than the early T1s All Type 1 models and early Type 2 models had a shorter tail moulding.
Re: gearbox
Thank you Alania,
Very useful information.
My car is an early SWB Type1 (S/N 32) with the short tail. Plan to build a different tail for it this winter. Sure would appreciate a little more cockpit room which I imagine the longer wheelbase would afford. I think I can get a few inches with the new tail and extend it for a a little sleeker. Going to try something along the lines of the new Super 3 tail. That's about the only thing I like about the new Morgan. I assume the extra 100mm in the later models is in the chassis and not the swing arm correct?
My story board states a Ford trans, mated with a Guzzi. This board came with the car and is most certainly incorrect information created by a PO owner who apparently didn't understand the
drivetrain configuration.
Very useful information.
My car is an early SWB Type1 (S/N 32) with the short tail. Plan to build a different tail for it this winter. Sure would appreciate a little more cockpit room which I imagine the longer wheelbase would afford. I think I can get a few inches with the new tail and extend it for a a little sleeker. Going to try something along the lines of the new Super 3 tail. That's about the only thing I like about the new Morgan. I assume the extra 100mm in the later models is in the chassis and not the swing arm correct?
My story board states a Ford trans, mated with a Guzzi. This board came with the car and is most certainly incorrect information created by a PO owner who apparently didn't understand the